“If we’ve changed one person's mindset, then we've done a job that we set out to do,” says Dr. Steven Jackson in the season-six finale of the Off the Charts podcast.

In this episode, Dr. Jackson and cohost Dr. Kari Haley share insights from more than 60 conversations, celebrating progress and their hopes for the future. Listen to the episode or read on for highlights from the conversation.

Chasing impact, not accolades

When Dr. Haley and Dr. Jackson first sat down to imagine their podcast series, they weren’t chasing fame or recognition. They were chasing impact.

For both, the podcast began with a simple but powerful “why.” They wanted to spark conversations about critical topics in health care and to amplify voices that often go unheard.

“I'm really floored by the work that potentially goes unnoticed,” Dr. Jackson says. “We have some great people within our organization and outside of our organization that are really moving the proverbial needle.”

Dr. Haley echoes that sentiment, saying, “I think the big-picture piece for myself is that there are so many people who are doing things with their heart. And it's improving care. It's improving access. It's improving other people's lives because they care passionately about it.”

And through the podcast, those meaningful stories can be shared, providing the opportunity for listeners to learn and rethink the way they interact with others, especially patients.

To Dr. Haley, the ultimate goal “really, truly is: how do we improve patient care?”

Inspiration and personal growth, 25 minutes at a time

Over the years, guests have shared fresh perspectives and innovative practices. From music therapy for people with dementia to conversations about the unhoused population in Saint Paul, each guest left a mark on how the cohosts think about patient care.

“We get to talk to experts and sit at their feet, so to speak, and learn and be a part of their world, even if it's just for 25 minutes,” says Dr. Jackson. “Just to be reinvigorated and be reinspired to do the things that we do – what a privilege.”

For Dr. Haley, the impact is sometimes more gradual but just as profound. These conversations have caused subtle shifts in thinking and behaviors that have accumulated over time. “You don't notice the change when you're in it,” she says. “But reflecting on it, my practice is very different from when I started.”

One lesson that stuck with Dr. Jackson from season one was from a conversation with Dr. Miguel Ruiz about cultural humility.

Dr. Jackson recalls, “He said that, particularly as clinicians, we should seek to understand, not seek to be understood. And I still carry that with me.” While it’s not always easy with a full case load, Dr. Jackson says, “I’ve noticed that my personal experience and interactions are richer when I go there with humility and I'm seeking to understand.”

Dr. Haley shares how her experience on the podcast shaped an interaction with a patient who had been to the emergency room multiple times for chest pain. While waiting for testing, Dr. Haley lingered in the room instead of dashing off to the next patient. “We just got to talking about his life, what he tries to do, to keep himself healthy, the challenges that he has with it.”

As far as Dr. Haley knows, the man didn’t return to the emergency room for the same complaint. While it’s hard to know for sure, Dr. Haley is cautiously optimistic. “Maybe it did matter that I spent an extra five minutes that I wouldn't have before some of the conversations that we've been a part of,” she says.

Making (sound) waves across the wider community

The podcast’s ripple effects reach far beyond the studio walls. Downloaded in every state and more than 50 countries, the podcast has also earned the duo recognition as Health Care Heroes by the Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal.

More importantly, listeners have shared stories of feeling seen, inspired and even motivated to change careers.

Dr. Haley recalls hearing from a former co-resident who shared the episode on international adoption stereotypes with her friend who is an adoptee.

“[The adoptee] felt so seen and so heard,” says Dr. Haley. “Knowing that there's people who can relate to her within the health field really made a difference to her.”

Looking forward to more meaningful conversations

Five years in, Dr. Haley and Dr. Jackson remain committed to “moving the needle.” Their conversations remind us that health care is about more than a diagnosis and treatment – it’s also about compassion, equity and connection.

Dr. Jackson has valued every discussion about making people feel welcomed, included and valued. But he’s looking forward to the day when those reminders are no longer necessary.
“I hope it ceases to be this extra thing, and that it becomes something that's expected and incorporated,” he says. “That these concepts become second nature, and they become not just part of what we believe, they become part of who we are.”

Until then, both cohosts stress the importance of keeping minds and hearts open, and the podcast going.

“My hope is that people just keep trying,” says Dr. Haley. “That they're open to learning and hearing and listening to other people and their stories – and just putting themselves in other people's shoes every once in a while.”

Dr. Jackson, echoes that, saying, “I hope that as an organization, as a race of people, we continue to be open to learning about each other, so we can support each other in this thing called life.”

And that’s a message worth carrying forward, inside the studio, into the exam room and across the wider world.